Pollgateway -discussion
[8:08 PM, 10/2/2019] Sandeep vijay raghavan: Hi, I am Dr Sundeep Vijayaraghavan. EC member APSI Can you introduce your company and credentials. Also how does you're system work
[8:09 PM, 10/2/2019] Sandeep vijay raghavan: Is there a chance that it can be hacked
[8:10 PM, 10/2/2019] Sandeep vijay raghavan: Can we prevent some people using other members I'd to vote on they're behalf
[8:27 PM, 10/2/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: Ours is STQC tested and verified system, STQC certification is by MeITY, Govt of India for security against vulnerabilities as per global OWASP standards
We use email AND /OR registered mobile number ( RMN ) as a tool to authenticate. It is responsibility of voter to keep control of access to these two. We recognise any authentic voter based on OTP sent to these two controls.
So technically speaking if these two controls are compromised, and someone else gets access to the OTPs voting can be done by that person. Same is true with any online banking account.
[10:25 PM, 10/2/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: So using link one can vote from mobile or PC / laptop or Tab
[10:25 PM, 10/2/2019] DrSatishKumar GS: Only smart phones can be used I assume? Any chance for feature phones? Can we also conduct vote by SMS
[10:27 PM, 10/2/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: For App , yes only smart phones. But for a link, one can use basic Jio phone with a browser!
[10:28 PM, 10/2/2019] DrSatishKumar GS: What about some people who dont want to use smart phones / basic Jio phones? There may be an occasional member who uses only plain old button phones with no internet
[10:28 PM, 10/2/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: We use link, so you can vote on PollGateway platform using
1. Smart phone / any handset with browser
2. PC. / Laptop
3. Tab
All the above with any OS
[10:30 PM, 10/2/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: Needs a browser at the very least. They can use laptops, if phone doesn't have connectivity
[10:31 PM, 10/2/2019] DrSatishKumar GS: A friend shared this experience: In ASI (Association of surgeons of India) elections, One chap in Dehradun confided he cast about a 100 votes in ASI, by taking OTPs from other Surgeons. He is in a position where younger Surgeons willingly obliged. How do we prevent this?
[10:32 PM, 10/2/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: You can't
[10:33 PM, 10/2/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: But he will have to use their log in
[10:33 PM, 10/2/2019] Sandeep Vijayaraghavan: But can we have a limit to the number of votes from a ip address
[10:34 PM, 10/2/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: Yes. IP restriction can be applied but arranging 100 different handsets will circumvent that too
[10:34 PM, 10/2/2019] Dr Radhakrishnan: Directly going to vote through RMN may prevent these
[10:35 PM, 10/2/2019] Sandeep Vijayaraghavan: Do we also have a paper voting along with evote
[10:35 PM, 10/2/2019] Sandeep Vijayaraghavan: Only makes it a little more difficult
[10:36 PM, 10/2/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: At venue of conference? Probably can arrange terminals and do away with paper votes entirely
[10:36 PM, 10/2/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: No purpose in having both
[10:36 PM, 10/2/2019] Sandeep Vijayaraghavan: Should the voting be only for the 9am to 4 pm that we'r normally have
[10:37 PM, 10/2/2019] Dr Radhakrishnan: It will be like signing the attendance with digital attendance
[10:37 PM, 10/2/2019] Sandeep Vijayaraghavan: 👍🏻
[10:37 PM, 10/2/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: No...can make it for say 48 hrs
[10:37 PM, 10/2/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: In response to this q
[10:38 PM, 10/2/2019] DrSatishKumar GS: Let us say, a senior surgeon (like a head of dept) forces his-sub ordinates or post graduates to vote from their own phones but in his or her presence and vote under his influence. Is this a possibility and assuming it is, what steps can be taken to avoid such situation?
[10:38 PM, 10/2/2019] Dr Radhakrishnan: Time can be kept after which the pollgate will not allow.
[10:38 PM, 10/2/2019] Sandeep Vijayaraghavan: We should also have a trouble shooting phone no from the voting people to help people
[10:39 PM, 10/2/2019] Sandeep Vijayaraghavan: You can have a provision to change your decision in 24 hours
[10:39 PM, 10/2/2019] Sandeep Vijayaraghavan: 😜
[10:40 PM, 10/2/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: I repeat...nothing can be done. Unless he is actually watching over their shoulders, they can still vote for whoever they want
[10:40 PM, 10/2/2019] Sandeep Vijayaraghavan: They can get back at the prof after they go home
[10:42 PM, 10/2/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: First of all...PGs can't vote.
If qualified staff are going to get browbeaten by their senior, that's tough.
[10:44 PM, 10/2/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: A professor can always ask all of them NOT to vote till last 1 hrs, and assemble together to vote as per desire and wait there till election window closes. In this way s/he preempts change within 24hrs.
[10:46 PM, 10/2/2019] Sandeep Vijayaraghavan: True. Can't do too much about it
[10:47 PM, 10/2/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: Let's not go there. This was perceived as one of the big flaws in remote voting. There is no real way you can prevent it
[10:49 PM, 10/2/2019] Sandeep Vijayaraghavan: Yes sir
[10:52 PM, 10/2/2019] DrSatishKumar GS: Actually some thing can be done.
A general dead line of Voting closure time will not allow anyone to change the vote, if casted in the last one hour as in the scenario explained by Mr Anirudh ..
But if general deadline of voting is till morning of general body meeting in the conference venue and each individual is given 24 hours deadline to change the vote(excluding the GBM day), there will be little that an 'influencing personality' can do
[10:53 PM, 10/2/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: So coersion can't be prevented. Especially since a professor has a lot of influence on the career and students will never dare go against their wish. But how many such students can a professor have? If that number is less than 2% of the votes cast, sensitivity of these votes to the outcome is low
[10:57 PM, 10/2/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: To me, the process should be something like this.
1. Each accredited and eligible- to- vote member is given an id, log in and password.
2. The names of the persons contesting election in each category will be displayed on the page, after they log in, and respond to the OTP sent by SMS or email.
3. Once they mark their vote, whether for one/two or all categories, and submit, it is final. No retractions permitted.
4. Naturally there have to be safeguards to see that they can't vote for more than the prescribed amount of people. Less maybe but not more.
5. The votes as they come in, will be automatically counted and tallied. Once the deadline is past, it can be displayed.
6. The identity of the voter should obviously be kept secret, only the vote will be regis…
[11:01 PM, 10/2/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: Yes. We recommend booth based evoting, where booth officer can provide privacy and freedom. But authority to change the vote if forcibly casted earlier had one flip side.
Anybody and everybody can change their vote in booth. So in some cases there will be changed evenif there was no coersion. Incentivised change of opinion 😃
[7:24 AM, 10/3/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: No need of logging in. In the world of smart phones, RMN is the id and OTP is the password
[7:49 AM, 10/3/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: Yes...if using a laptop/tablet same applies? Also one dedicated number will have to be given to each person. People with multiple phones will need to remember that
[7:53 AM, 10/3/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: Registration of voters is the main process that needs effort. Usually the database of an association is never complete from the view point of digital voting. Apart from membership number, full name the registry must have RMN ( if multiple contact numbers are available, only one of them should be identified as the RMN for the purpose of voting ) and email address ( if used as controlled access )
[7:55 AM, 10/3/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: This is a herculean task to complete this information and also have consent of the members for this. You cannot display this personal info on website to get a quick consent. If proof of consent is not available, a voter can legally challenge if his / her right of voting is compromised due to wrong data
[8:01 AM, 10/3/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: So my suggestion of that you prioritise
1. Amendment to the Constitution, which specifies the objectives and the structure but does not specify technology, for it changes rapidly. Structure could be process followed to connect data, compliance by members, time period for the processes, committee that is empowered to detail the process and manage exceptions etc
2. Sensitize the org for preparation to go digital and collect data needed during the next conference as signed forms. ( Consent to use this data for online voting by the members.
[8:05 AM, 10/3/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: It will be a good idea to have a session in your upcoming conference on 'digital governance' within the organisation. All- members will be aligned towards this. eVoting is a classic application of digital governance....
[8:06 AM, 10/3/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: Transparency brings in confidence. Members ( especially 60+ ) feel comfortable to have addressed their concerns about technology adoption. 😃
[8:08 AM, 10/3/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: In any case, this will be discussed in the GB this time and if passed, will work from next time.
We can set up a separate registration, or release a list of names which are already there in the APSI database. We can make it compulsory to register for each election. After all, if there is a clamour for electronic voting, they need to be this savvy at least.
Those who have not registered for remote voting can vote in termini set up at conference venue, when they have to cross-check name as per records.
If both are missing, tough luck.
[8:08 AM, 10/3/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: I don't think display of any pvt info is an issue. It is already in the APSI site
[8:11 AM, 10/3/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: Incidentally, I have a confession to make....call me old school or whatever...I still believe in the merits of on-site voting...for a variety of reasons. And it is definitely not due to lack of interest or knowledge of technology😀... nonetheless, I have promised Dr. Sundeep that I will be unbiased in all opinions.
[8:11 AM, 10/3/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: This is not a good practice. Especially after eVoting is introduced. You are keeping the key of the locker in public domain. Sweet carrot for the hackers.
[8:12 AM, 10/3/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: APSI site has already been hacked once. I believe that issue has been addressed. However, your point is valid
[8:18 AM, 10/3/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: We have an elaborate process of registration for the first timers. All privacy aspects are taken care of. Eg public display of the list of registered members is partly masked
9720****60 will be displayed as your number. Member can verify RMN but Hackers can't do anything.
[8:19 AM, 10/3/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: Apps like True Caller have opened the doors of privacy. Almost every number is available on the net. Anyway, your point is made
[8:20 AM, 10/3/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: The entries done by the APSI election office will be self verified by each member and record of such consent is maintained. This preempts any dispute later.
[8:23 AM, 10/3/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: You have to guess 10 to the power 4 permutations to find the right guy ( your name ) using True Caller. 😃
[8:25 AM, 10/3/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: I am a regular speaker / panelist in Medical conferences including eHeath, Telemedicon etc. Shall be happy to be invited in your event on eGovernance talk
[10:20 PM, 10/4/2019] DrSatishKumar GS: Dear members of the group: Any more discussion from required from Mr Anirudh - Kindly finish it in next 2-3 days (or more if required). Then we can discuss the pros and cons after he leaves the room.
[4:50 PM, 10/5/2019] Sandeep Vijayaraghavan: Nothing from my side
[5:38 PM, 10/5/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: Ditto
[6:40 PM, 10/5/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: 👋🏻 thanks. time for me to leave the group and wait for your decision in AGM.
[7:05 PM, 10/5/2019] Sandeep Vijayaraghavan: Thanks Aniruddha
Pollgateway Anirudh Nene left
[7:22 PM, 10/5/2019] DrSatishKumar GS: We missed asking him about the charges
[7:23 PM, 10/5/2019] DrSatishKumar GS: Will add him again
[7:23 PM, 10/5/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: His number is there, someone can ask him and post his answer here
[7:24 PM, 10/5/2019] DrSatishKumar GS: He left suddenly
[7:24 PM, 10/5/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: He announced...no worries. Sandeep, can you ask him for an official invoice which can be posted here?
[7:47 PM, 10/5/2019] Dr Radhakrishnan: Same with me
[8:09 AM, 10/6/2019] Sandeep Vijayaraghavan: Sure sir. Satish has spoken to him and will be able to do it
[9:02 AM, 10/6/2019] DrSatishKumar GS: No sandeep - he didn’t answer my phone
[8:09 PM, 10/2/2019] Sandeep vijay raghavan: Is there a chance that it can be hacked
[8:10 PM, 10/2/2019] Sandeep vijay raghavan: Can we prevent some people using other members I'd to vote on they're behalf
[8:27 PM, 10/2/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: Ours is STQC tested and verified system, STQC certification is by MeITY, Govt of India for security against vulnerabilities as per global OWASP standards
We use email AND /OR registered mobile number ( RMN ) as a tool to authenticate. It is responsibility of voter to keep control of access to these two. We recognise any authentic voter based on OTP sent to these two controls.
So technically speaking if these two controls are compromised, and someone else gets access to the OTPs voting can be done by that person. Same is true with any online banking account.
[10:25 PM, 10/2/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: So using link one can vote from mobile or PC / laptop or Tab
[10:25 PM, 10/2/2019] DrSatishKumar GS: Only smart phones can be used I assume? Any chance for feature phones? Can we also conduct vote by SMS
[10:27 PM, 10/2/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: For App , yes only smart phones. But for a link, one can use basic Jio phone with a browser!
[10:28 PM, 10/2/2019] DrSatishKumar GS: What about some people who dont want to use smart phones / basic Jio phones? There may be an occasional member who uses only plain old button phones with no internet
[10:28 PM, 10/2/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: We use link, so you can vote on PollGateway platform using
1. Smart phone / any handset with browser
2. PC. / Laptop
3. Tab
All the above with any OS
[10:30 PM, 10/2/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: Needs a browser at the very least. They can use laptops, if phone doesn't have connectivity
[10:31 PM, 10/2/2019] DrSatishKumar GS: A friend shared this experience: In ASI (Association of surgeons of India) elections, One chap in Dehradun confided he cast about a 100 votes in ASI, by taking OTPs from other Surgeons. He is in a position where younger Surgeons willingly obliged. How do we prevent this?
[10:32 PM, 10/2/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: You can't
[10:33 PM, 10/2/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: But he will have to use their log in
[10:33 PM, 10/2/2019] Sandeep Vijayaraghavan: But can we have a limit to the number of votes from a ip address
[10:34 PM, 10/2/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: Yes. IP restriction can be applied but arranging 100 different handsets will circumvent that too
[10:34 PM, 10/2/2019] Dr Radhakrishnan: Directly going to vote through RMN may prevent these
[10:35 PM, 10/2/2019] Sandeep Vijayaraghavan: Do we also have a paper voting along with evote
[10:35 PM, 10/2/2019] Sandeep Vijayaraghavan: Only makes it a little more difficult
[10:36 PM, 10/2/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: At venue of conference? Probably can arrange terminals and do away with paper votes entirely
[10:36 PM, 10/2/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: No purpose in having both
[10:36 PM, 10/2/2019] Sandeep Vijayaraghavan: Should the voting be only for the 9am to 4 pm that we'r normally have
[10:37 PM, 10/2/2019] Dr Radhakrishnan: It will be like signing the attendance with digital attendance
[10:37 PM, 10/2/2019] Sandeep Vijayaraghavan: 👍🏻
[10:37 PM, 10/2/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: No...can make it for say 48 hrs
[10:37 PM, 10/2/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: In response to this q
[10:38 PM, 10/2/2019] DrSatishKumar GS: Let us say, a senior surgeon (like a head of dept) forces his-sub ordinates or post graduates to vote from their own phones but in his or her presence and vote under his influence. Is this a possibility and assuming it is, what steps can be taken to avoid such situation?
[10:38 PM, 10/2/2019] Dr Radhakrishnan: Time can be kept after which the pollgate will not allow.
[10:38 PM, 10/2/2019] Sandeep Vijayaraghavan: We should also have a trouble shooting phone no from the voting people to help people
[10:39 PM, 10/2/2019] Sandeep Vijayaraghavan: You can have a provision to change your decision in 24 hours
[10:39 PM, 10/2/2019] Sandeep Vijayaraghavan: 😜
[10:40 PM, 10/2/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: I repeat...nothing can be done. Unless he is actually watching over their shoulders, they can still vote for whoever they want
[10:40 PM, 10/2/2019] Sandeep Vijayaraghavan: They can get back at the prof after they go home
[10:42 PM, 10/2/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: First of all...PGs can't vote.
If qualified staff are going to get browbeaten by their senior, that's tough.
[10:44 PM, 10/2/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: A professor can always ask all of them NOT to vote till last 1 hrs, and assemble together to vote as per desire and wait there till election window closes. In this way s/he preempts change within 24hrs.
[10:46 PM, 10/2/2019] Sandeep Vijayaraghavan: True. Can't do too much about it
[10:47 PM, 10/2/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: Let's not go there. This was perceived as one of the big flaws in remote voting. There is no real way you can prevent it
[10:49 PM, 10/2/2019] Sandeep Vijayaraghavan: Yes sir
[10:52 PM, 10/2/2019] DrSatishKumar GS: Actually some thing can be done.
A general dead line of Voting closure time will not allow anyone to change the vote, if casted in the last one hour as in the scenario explained by Mr Anirudh ..
But if general deadline of voting is till morning of general body meeting in the conference venue and each individual is given 24 hours deadline to change the vote(excluding the GBM day), there will be little that an 'influencing personality' can do
[10:53 PM, 10/2/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: So coersion can't be prevented. Especially since a professor has a lot of influence on the career and students will never dare go against their wish. But how many such students can a professor have? If that number is less than 2% of the votes cast, sensitivity of these votes to the outcome is low
[10:57 PM, 10/2/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: To me, the process should be something like this.
1. Each accredited and eligible- to- vote member is given an id, log in and password.
2. The names of the persons contesting election in each category will be displayed on the page, after they log in, and respond to the OTP sent by SMS or email.
3. Once they mark their vote, whether for one/two or all categories, and submit, it is final. No retractions permitted.
4. Naturally there have to be safeguards to see that they can't vote for more than the prescribed amount of people. Less maybe but not more.
5. The votes as they come in, will be automatically counted and tallied. Once the deadline is past, it can be displayed.
6. The identity of the voter should obviously be kept secret, only the vote will be regis…
[11:01 PM, 10/2/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: Yes. We recommend booth based evoting, where booth officer can provide privacy and freedom. But authority to change the vote if forcibly casted earlier had one flip side.
Anybody and everybody can change their vote in booth. So in some cases there will be changed evenif there was no coersion. Incentivised change of opinion 😃
[7:24 AM, 10/3/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: No need of logging in. In the world of smart phones, RMN is the id and OTP is the password
[7:49 AM, 10/3/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: Yes...if using a laptop/tablet same applies? Also one dedicated number will have to be given to each person. People with multiple phones will need to remember that
[7:53 AM, 10/3/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: Registration of voters is the main process that needs effort. Usually the database of an association is never complete from the view point of digital voting. Apart from membership number, full name the registry must have RMN ( if multiple contact numbers are available, only one of them should be identified as the RMN for the purpose of voting ) and email address ( if used as controlled access )
[7:55 AM, 10/3/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: This is a herculean task to complete this information and also have consent of the members for this. You cannot display this personal info on website to get a quick consent. If proof of consent is not available, a voter can legally challenge if his / her right of voting is compromised due to wrong data
[8:01 AM, 10/3/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: So my suggestion of that you prioritise
1. Amendment to the Constitution, which specifies the objectives and the structure but does not specify technology, for it changes rapidly. Structure could be process followed to connect data, compliance by members, time period for the processes, committee that is empowered to detail the process and manage exceptions etc
2. Sensitize the org for preparation to go digital and collect data needed during the next conference as signed forms. ( Consent to use this data for online voting by the members.
[8:05 AM, 10/3/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: It will be a good idea to have a session in your upcoming conference on 'digital governance' within the organisation. All- members will be aligned towards this. eVoting is a classic application of digital governance....
[8:06 AM, 10/3/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: Transparency brings in confidence. Members ( especially 60+ ) feel comfortable to have addressed their concerns about technology adoption. 😃
[8:08 AM, 10/3/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: In any case, this will be discussed in the GB this time and if passed, will work from next time.
We can set up a separate registration, or release a list of names which are already there in the APSI database. We can make it compulsory to register for each election. After all, if there is a clamour for electronic voting, they need to be this savvy at least.
Those who have not registered for remote voting can vote in termini set up at conference venue, when they have to cross-check name as per records.
If both are missing, tough luck.
[8:08 AM, 10/3/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: I don't think display of any pvt info is an issue. It is already in the APSI site
[8:11 AM, 10/3/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: Incidentally, I have a confession to make....call me old school or whatever...I still believe in the merits of on-site voting...for a variety of reasons. And it is definitely not due to lack of interest or knowledge of technology😀... nonetheless, I have promised Dr. Sundeep that I will be unbiased in all opinions.
[8:11 AM, 10/3/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: This is not a good practice. Especially after eVoting is introduced. You are keeping the key of the locker in public domain. Sweet carrot for the hackers.
[8:12 AM, 10/3/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: APSI site has already been hacked once. I believe that issue has been addressed. However, your point is valid
[8:18 AM, 10/3/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: We have an elaborate process of registration for the first timers. All privacy aspects are taken care of. Eg public display of the list of registered members is partly masked
9720****60 will be displayed as your number. Member can verify RMN but Hackers can't do anything.
[8:19 AM, 10/3/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: Apps like True Caller have opened the doors of privacy. Almost every number is available on the net. Anyway, your point is made
[8:20 AM, 10/3/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: The entries done by the APSI election office will be self verified by each member and record of such consent is maintained. This preempts any dispute later.
[8:23 AM, 10/3/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: You have to guess 10 to the power 4 permutations to find the right guy ( your name ) using True Caller. 😃
[8:25 AM, 10/3/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: I am a regular speaker / panelist in Medical conferences including eHeath, Telemedicon etc. Shall be happy to be invited in your event on eGovernance talk
[10:20 PM, 10/4/2019] DrSatishKumar GS: Dear members of the group: Any more discussion from required from Mr Anirudh - Kindly finish it in next 2-3 days (or more if required). Then we can discuss the pros and cons after he leaves the room.
[4:50 PM, 10/5/2019] Sandeep Vijayaraghavan: Nothing from my side
[5:38 PM, 10/5/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: Ditto
[6:40 PM, 10/5/2019] Pollgateway Anirudh Nene: 👋🏻 thanks. time for me to leave the group and wait for your decision in AGM.
[7:05 PM, 10/5/2019] Sandeep Vijayaraghavan: Thanks Aniruddha
Pollgateway Anirudh Nene left
[7:22 PM, 10/5/2019] DrSatishKumar GS: We missed asking him about the charges
[7:23 PM, 10/5/2019] DrSatishKumar GS: Will add him again
[7:23 PM, 10/5/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: His number is there, someone can ask him and post his answer here
[7:24 PM, 10/5/2019] DrSatishKumar GS: He left suddenly
[7:24 PM, 10/5/2019] Prof Mukund Jagannadhan: He announced...no worries. Sandeep, can you ask him for an official invoice which can be posted here?
[7:47 PM, 10/5/2019] Dr Radhakrishnan: Same with me
[8:09 AM, 10/6/2019] Sandeep Vijayaraghavan: Sure sir. Satish has spoken to him and will be able to do it
[9:02 AM, 10/6/2019] DrSatishKumar GS: No sandeep - he didn’t answer my phone
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