discussion in yahoo group in 2014
2014
Ayyappan ThangavelFeb 28, 2014
It is high time the elections are made more transparent as well the rules of the elections,more
importantly, the intentions of the incumbent must be made clear,he should speak about what he
intends to do in that post and why he wants to be a candidate and accountability must be fixed,
i realized that the system of election though apparently seemed fair was loaded , when i stood
for the elections long time ago,with certain progressive ideas in mind.i realized only then
that there was /were cogs within cogs and unseen agendas that were in play,surely this is not
for people who call a spade by the same name,evoting is definitely an excellent idea,but if the
groups which controll the process who are hell bent on carrying their own agendas with closed
minds and have pre decided who is to be elected ,then even this will fail.
Dr.Ayyappan
priti shuklaFeb 27, 2014
Dear friends,
This issue has been discussed before . My view is first we should agree on what is desirable and then look at problems and work on making it possible .
I think its desirable to have online voting . How many of us think that?
Its desirable because, more people will be able to take part. I dont think people should attend conferences for elections . For learning, teaching, for bonding /networking yes... but for elections-why?
difficulties have been talked about generally. Lets discuss them specifically and use the technology and willpower to solve it. May be its not that difficult. We are the most net savvy group of docs no doubt. May be we can be the first one to do it successfully.
But the basic question that needs to be answered before this is done is - does everyone favor it -at least theoretically?
Regards
Dr Priti Shukla,MS, Mch( plastic surgery)Fellowship in Cosmetic Surgery USA
Consultant Plastic and Cosmetic surgeonAmbrosia Clinic
Mukund JagannathanFeb 26, 2014
Dear Members, esp Rajiv,
There is some truth to what you are saying. However, electronic voting will solve one problem and create another mammoth problem.
I agree with you about the lobbying at the conference etc, but are we not shifting this to pre conference times by having electronic voting? There is likely to be far more polarisation and vote collecting by all means, legal or illegal, at the time of voting. People can and will ask for the voter ids and logins etc, and many people may not be in a position to refuse them.
What you have proposed has been doing the rounds, at least discussion wise for a couple of years. In the places where it is being implemented, they are facing problems.
You mentioned about selection of best candidates etc, and about better representation of the cross section of members, but, consider this...apart from scientific and educational activities in a conference, there are some other aspects...bonding, fraternal non scientific discussions and the general concept of meeting with people. If a person is not willing to spend a few days once a year, in order to be involved in the electoral process, I somehow feel that the person concerned may not be very interested in the organisation per se...this is my personal opinion, and of course and it is exactly that and nothing more.
No Rajiv, I feel that though we have limitations in the current process, we may be opening a Pandora's box by adopting this strategy, with its seemingly attractive benefits.
Again, my two cents worth.
Best regards
Mukund Jagannathan
Dr.Manohar lal SharmaFeb 26, 2014
this is a very good suggestion.
All support for it
manohar
Dr.Manohar Lal Sharma MS,FRCS(Eng.)Plastic and Cosmetic surgeon17, Nilgiri Apts, Alaknanda,New Delhi 110019 . India
DR.RAJA.2014
Dear Dr.Rajiv Agarwal,
I do agree with you.Most of the time the candidate is not known to every member of APSI.
DR.RAJA.The Nova Cosmetic Center,Coimbatore.TAMILNADU.
Vijay KumarFeb 24, 2014
dear members
as information given by dr surajit, this was discussed in the mid term executive meeting on February 9 2013 ,at New Delhi, The company fellows will come at Chandigarh during APSICON, and they will give a demonstration of e-voting -and tell its scope, its safeguards and its cost, again, the honorable members will have feel ,and see how they can participate in voting. The rest GB will decide.
regardsDr. Vijay Kumar MS, MCh, DNB, MNAMS Professor Department of Plastic Surgery
King George's Medical UniversityLucknow.UP,India.Mob.no. 9415085625,Dept.0522-2257446,Res. 0522-2720215
Surajit Bhattacharya 2014
Dear friends,
This is a sentiment already percolating down the executive committee of APSI. We have, in the mid term meeting on February 9 discussed it threadbare. We invited the SAM Voting guys, who manage the ASI voting, and they gave us a demonstration of e-voting - its scope, its safeguards and its cost. The Ex. Com will bring all this to the G. B and seek a consensus to go ahead.
Regards,Surajit Bhattacharya
venkateswara reddyFeb 24, 2014
good idea..........When it is happening in other professional body...Why can't we...needs serious discussion and implementation
D rA.V.ReddyNellore
RAJIV AGARWALFeb 21, 2014
Dear Colleagues,
The APSI elections are an important and essential feature of our association. They help to select the best candidates for the various posts of APSI in a democratic manner. These elected members in turn are responsible for the welfare and propagation of our association in the society at large. The members make their best efforts in doing their part for the association, like has been done by all our past presidents in their respective tenures.
I would now like to draw the attention of our unique group a little more towards the process of election that currently takes place during a particular APSICON. Those who are standing for any particular post make their moves few months in advance by way of personal communications, rapport and then coming on to email and then SMSs before and during the conference. For these members who are standing for an ''x' post, the conference becomes a secondary issue and most of their time gets spend in convassing. Over the years the pitch has become louder and often bitter sometimes and creates bad taste amongst contesting members which is not good and carries lingering memories. On the day of voting in particular the activity is most and I feel that it does disturb the contestants and also the voter members. For those who lose election after all this éffort' it is possibly a heartbreak as I can vouch from personal experience over last several years.
Although the members are all knowledgeable, i wish to once again suggest the adoption of the process of advance voting and election prior to the meeting and only the announcement of the result to be made during the conference. The voting can be done by online method as now the majority of our members are net savvy, I pad savvy and have 24x7 net access even on their cell phones. This method may be supplemented by the voting by sending regular mails for those who wish to cast their vote offline. This way everybody would be included. I think that this system has following advantages.
1. Not all members of APSI attend the annual conference so they too can vote. So the vote would be more representative of the association.
2. The unnecessary rantings, approaches, lobbying etc during the annual conferences can be totally avoided.
3. The members can better decide who is the best candidate in the luxury of their homes and not due to ''on the spot'' decisions.
4. The contesting members can atleast attend the meetings in more peace of mind and devote more time to their academic lectures.
The system is currently adopted by many other medical organisations both national and international and so it does work, nothing new in it. I will be writing to the secretary and the president individually about this but it is important to take feedback and comments of the group in positive or negative - It is ultimately for the general body to decide.
Sincerely,
Dr. Rajiv Agarwal
MS, DNB (Gen.Surg), MCh, DNB (Plast.Surg), MNAMS, FRCS (Eng)Professor and Head and Chief of Plastic Surgery,Department of Plastic Surgery and Burns,
Dr. Rakesh KalraOct 10, 2014
Vadde Praji
Two points you have raised regarding the cons of a postal ballot
1. "scope for malpractice and vote gathering will become profound"
I can imagine this happening not amongst private practitioners but only in Departments where the HOD may collect all the ballot papers and post them in favour of only one favourite candidate. But this already happens, as even now the HOD hints all residents to vote for the candidate he wants to, and residents and junior lecturers have really no opinion and there is a mass voting in a herd mentality.
so be it.
I have seen the whole Gynae society in my town voting en masse every year for just one National President candidate, whoever is decided upon by recommendation of even one member. Each member is free to deviate, but since no one knows the candidate personally, none is bothered.
So what?
2. "The anonymity will be also lost, as there has to be a name attached.
Not really, as this can be worked out on an envelope-within-an-envelope concept. The outer envelope contains the name and other details of the voting member, and this reaches the Election officer. He opens this and puts the inner envelope with the ballot paper into the ballot box for final counting, in frontof witnesses of all candidates concerned
However, the idea of electronic voting is also workable, and now desirable.
But no, the GBM or the Constitution need not be raked up for these are only procedural issues. That Elections have to be held-is what the Constitution says. But then how-can be the Executive's prerogative.
personal regards
Dr. Rakesh KalraMBBS MS MChCosmetic & Plastic SurgeonASHIRWAD HOSPITAL
plasurgenOct 10, 2014
Dear Rakesh praji,
Your tongue in cheek remarks have some basis..but it will be difficult and possibly detrimental in implementing. The issue of postal or electronic voting has come up time and again. I know. .this is practiced by several organisations. The point is well taken, that there may be members who may not be able to attend a particular conference, but who wish to have a say in proceedings. .and the composition of the elected bodies. However, the scope for malpractice and vote gathering will become profound. The anonymity will be also lost, as there has to be a name attached.
Probably a good via media is to have on line, real time elections for those who cannot make it. It should not be difficult electronically. I mean each person with a dedicated ID and log in can log on to a pre decided site and register his or her vote. Again, anonymity will be lost, but this seems to be a bottom line in all these formats..However, real time voting seems to have a better control on the voting process. A time period can be specified. .and safeguards can be established.
The proceeds of the ex co meetings etc are fine. I believe the newsletter should cover the relevant data. Sending a separate email may make excess work for the secretary. Nonetheless. .a good point.
As you say, these can be taken up in the GBM. Unfortunately there are so many issues, and so little time...plus everyone wants to hit the bar asap. Still..let's see.
Best wishes
Mukund Jagannathan
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